Stuck on VDDL... can't go down

[The Beerslayer]

Is

th
is

sp
oi
ly
??

I'
m

no
t

su
re

so

I'
ll

pu
t

th
is

he
re

to

be

sa
fe
..
..

OK, I admit it... I'm stuck.

My latest PC, a neutral level 18 human wizard, has made it farther
than any wizard [1] I've ever had [2]. At this point, she's on
level 2 of the Assassin's Guild (VDDL) and wanting to get to level
3. She has both teleportitis and teleport control, so maneuvering
around all the teleport traps is not a problem. She has mapped out
the entire visible portion of the level. She has already received
the "You suddenly feel attuned to this area" message mentioned in
the GB, so unless I'm missing something, she should be able to find
and use the stairway/teleporter to level 3.

At this point, she has wasted all but one charge in both Wands of
Item Detection[3] she possesses trying in vain to find the item on
top of the stairway, as discussed in the GB, but it has never been
revealed, not even once. All other items on the level have been
cleaned out so further wand use only "reveals the absence of
items".

Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for her?
She doesn't have any Scrolls of Magic Mapping nor any Crystals of
Knowledge. Is there any other way to locate the stairway? I'd
hate to have to try teleporting her to every possible square
outside the mapped region just to find it.

-- Jeff
-- aka The Beerslayer

1 - and all but one other character of any kind
2 - which, after more than 9 months of playing, tells you how
much I suck at this game; but, ever the optimist, I
continue to play it anyway...
3 - one uncursed, one blessed, four charges each

---------------------------------------------------------------
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth.
-- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Josh Singh]

Post by The Beerslayer
Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..
OK, I admit it... I'm stuck.

<snip>

Post by The Beerslayer
Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for her?
She doesn't have any Scrolls of Magic Mapping nor any Crystals of
Knowledge. Is there any other way to locate the stairway? I'd
hate to have to try teleporting her to every possible square
outside the mapped region just to find it.

My guess is that some monster is wandering around in that tiny space, and
must have picked up the wand.
I never use item detection anyway (bad habit, I suppose). I just locate a
rather empty region and begin digging. No, it doesn't always work in a
reasonable time frame. Teleporting quasi-randomly is the only thing I can
think of, sorry. (If a monster did pick it up, however, then you might be
able to use monster detection.)

Post by The Beerslayer
2 - which, after more than 9 months of playing, tells you how
much I suck at this game; but, ever the optimist, I
continue to play it anyway...

I've been playing for 19 months and I haven't typically done a whole lot
better (I have made progress, but it's been very slow). I do make it a habit
of killing the assassin prince nowadays in order to get Sting and a couple
levels (this is *not* something you should do with a slow character,
especially with melee). Show your top ten, and we'll see who the worse
player is. (I'll show you mine if you show me yours ;).)

[The Beerslayer]

(spoiler space removed since this is no longer spoily)

Post by The Beerslayer
2 - which, after more than 9 months of playing, tells you
how much I suck at this game; but, ever the optimist,
I continue to play it anyway...

Show your top ten, and we'll see who the worse player is.
(I'll show you mine if you show me yours ;).)

I'm sorry, Josh. I'm afraid I can't do that.

The Windows version 1.1.1 doesn't appear to support the -S command
line option to generate a hiscore.doc file.

Besides, you really don't want to know if I've been savescumming or
not, do you? :)

-- Jeff
-- aka The Beerslayer

---------------------------------------------------------------
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to
be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to
bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape
of idea. -- John Ciardi
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Josh Singh]

Post by The Beerslayer
(spoiler space removed since this is no longer spoily)

Post by The Beerslayer
2 - which, after more than 9 months of playing, tells you
how much I suck at this game; but, ever the optimist,
I continue to play it anyway...

Show your top ten, and we'll see who the worse player is.
(I'll show you mine if you show me yours ;).)

I'm sorry, Josh. I'm afraid I can't do that.
The Windows version 1.1.1 doesn't appear to support the -S command
line option to generate a hiscore.doc file.

Wow, that Windows build is really queer. I've got XP and I use the DOS build
(though you really have to use a batch in order for it to run properly). I
guess you're on 2000 or ME.
I really wanna just give Windows the finger and kick it out the door, but
then I'm not compatible with anything anymore. (BTW, can anyone recommend a
good, cheap Linux OS that runs under XP? I've wanted to give it a try; I
could do without all these extra security measures I've had to install and
run non-stop because our ResNet is under constant attack. If I figure Linux
out, I'll get Wine and burn my Windows CD in the Quad while hundreds of
students watch and laugh and, possibly, bunn.)

Post by The Beerslayer
Besides, you really don't want to know if I've been savescumming or
not, do you? :)

Well, if you're a savescummer and you still haven't made substantial
progress, then that just makes me look better.

[Janek Kozicki]

Josh Singh said: (by the date of 8 Nov 2003 20:38:22 GMT)

Post by Josh Singh
I really wanna just give Windows the finger and kick it out the door, but

I did that 3 years ago ;)

Post by Josh Singh
then I'm not compatible with anything anymore.

yes, you are => OpenOffice - it reads all msOffice formats, and it does
it good.

Post by Josh Singh
(BTW, can anyone recommend a
good, cheap Linux OS that runs under XP? I've wanted to give it a try;

not sure what you mean? what is XP? (if you mean winXP, then the
answer is: cygwin)

Post by Josh Singh
If I figure Linux
out, I'll get Wine and burn my Windows CD in the Quad while hundreds of
students watch and laugh and, possibly, bunn.)

generally if you are not using windows for Computer Aided Design then
everything you need is under linux (all office applications
(OpenOffice,Koffice,Gnome-suite), graphic processing (gimp), film
processing (mencoder,imagemagick,filmgimp), math processing
(gnumeric,gnuplot,...), net apps (galeon,mozilla,sylpheed,ximian) and so
on)

lack of good CAD application is major PITA for people who want to switch
to linux. So if don't need CAD then you can switch to linux NOW! ;-)

And you will not need wine (unless you are going to run fallout, which
runs pretty good ;)

If you are stuck between all those distros then try knoppix, or if you
are a _little_ more advanced then take a dive into debian. I have also
heard some *very* good opinions about libranet - that this distro is
just debian with the only difference - very easy installer (although I
never tried it)

[Janek Kozicki]

sorry about replying to myself... two more things:

avoid Red-Hat, and Mandrake, they both use rpm which sucks a whole lot.

good 3d-design app is blender.

[The Wanderer]

Josh Singh said: (by the date of 8 Nov 2003 20:38:22 GMT)

Post by Josh Singh
I really wanna just give Windows the finger and kick it out the door, but

I did that 3 years ago ;)

I dropped Windows (98, since I disliked anything later even more) last
Christmas, when I got a new hard drive on which to install Linux, and
have never regretted it; I've been back exactly twice, both times
briefly, and can no longer even boot my remaining install. I keep it
there because there are still some things on that drive which I haven't
sorted out into keep/trash yet.

Post by Josh Singh
then I'm not compatible with anything anymore.

yes, you are => OpenOffice - it reads all msOffice formats, and it
does it good.

Can be a bit of a pain to get working, though... and is occasionally
quirky (at the least) in handling some of the features of said formats.
At least in my experience, which is limited because of the
aforementioned problems with getting it to work right.

Post by Josh Singh
(BTW, can anyone recommend a good, cheap Linux OS that runs under
XP? I've wanted to give it a try;

not sure what you mean? what is XP? (if you mean winXP, then the
answer is: cygwin)

I'm not sure what is meant by "a Linux that runs under Windows XP",
myself. Cygwin is about as close as you come, although WinLinux has its
proponents (or had; I haven't looked in awhile). If you can clarify the
question, maybe I can dig something up.

Post by Josh Singh
If I figure Linux out, I'll get Wine and burn my Windows CD in the
Quad while hundreds of students watch and laugh and, possibly,
bunn.)

generally if you are not using windows for Computer Aided Design then
everything you need is under linux (all office applications
(OpenOffice,Koffice,Gnome-suite), graphic processing (gimp), film
processing (mencoder,imagemagick,filmgimp), math processing
(gnumeric,gnuplot,...), net apps (galeon,mozilla,sylpheed,ximian) and
so on)
lack of good CAD application is major PITA for people who want to
switch to linux. So if don't need CAD then you can switch to linux
NOW! ;-)

There's also the question of games. WineX can handle most things, but
isn't free; admittedly last time I heard it was in the $15-$30 range and
could handle damn near anything that didn't require .NET, but the fact
remains. <grin>

Video editing/processing is also not necessarily up to par; a few people
I know who dislike Windows still keep it around almost exclusively for
such programs as Virtual Dub, which reigns supreme in the free
video-processing world but is Windows-only.

And you will not need wine (unless you are going to run fallout,
which runs pretty good ;)

Or any of a number of other games... there are so many I'd like to play
again which I can't get at because of the limited emulation available in
Wine, dosemu and the like.

If you are stuck between all those distros then try knoppix, or if
you are a _little_ more advanced then take a dive into debian. I have
also heard some *very* good opinions about libranet - that this
distro is just debian with the only difference - very easy installer
(although I never tried it)

I can confirm - I run Libranet (a slightly old version), the install is
almost brain-dead simple, and once installed it leaves you with pure
Debian except for a few things like adminmenu, which I use primarily for
handling kernel configuration preparatory to recompile. (I'm doing so as
I type, as a matter of fact.)

Knoppix is also much liked - slip the CD into any computer which can
boot from one, boot off of said CD, and you're in a reasonable Linux
environment. My brother (who went Linux before I did, albeit not so
cold-turkey) uses it at the college, since he can't stand to run Windows
if he has any choice in the matter at all.

[Josh Singh]

Post by The Wanderer

Josh Singh said: (by the date of 8 Nov 2003 20:38:22 GMT)

Post by Josh Singh
(BTW, can anyone recommend a good, cheap Linux OS that runs under
XP? I've wanted to give it a try;

not sure what you mean? what is XP? (if you mean winXP, then the
answer is: cygwin)

I'm not sure what is meant by "a Linux that runs under Windows XP",
myself. Cygwin is about as close as you come, although WinLinux has
its proponents (or had; I haven't looked in awhile). If you can
clarify the question, maybe I can dig something up.

I meant, specifically, something that can run under Windows XP. Nothing that
requires me to repartition my drive or anything. I'm looking for a flavour
sample, basically. I was checking some distributions out at www.linux.org,
though some of the links they give are dead.
My best friend thinks it's a good idea for me to get Linux. He's a hardcore
Apple user, so, of course, he despises Windows. (His Panther order was held
up in Nashville or something, and he was about ready to blow. He spends his
days scouring the Internet for photos of G5s and people using G5s. It's
almost a sexual experience for him. I told him that he should be here in
Ottawa, sharing a room with me, majoring in Canadian Studies or something
like that. He'd stuff himself stupid at the trough and I'd watch in horror,
three times a day.)

BTW, folks, if it bothers you that I'm constantly talking about myself or my
life, feel free to tell me to shut up. Or, better yet, talk about yourself.
I'd actually like to hear of your own stupidest experiences.

[Moah, platypus powaaa!]

The 08/11/2003, "Josh Singh" wrote:

... snip ...

Post by Josh Singh
I'd actually like to hear of your own stupidest experiences.

Oh no you don't want to know! The only thing stupidder than some of my
"experiences"
is a headless chicken running around.

Moah, platypus powaaa!

[Josh Singh]

Post by Moah, platypus powaaa!
... snip ...

Post by Josh Singh
I'd actually like to hear of your own stupidest experiences.

Oh no you don't want to know! The only thing stupidder than some of my
"experiences"
is a headless chicken running around.

I've never seen that. Always wanted to, though.
And I think I do want to know. After all, I'm constantly relating everything
back to my own experiences in some way. I can listen to stupid experiences
all day. No book or movie can hold a candle to a lived experience.

[matija]

Post by Josh Singh
BTW, folks, if it bothers you that I'm constantly talking about myself or my
life, feel free to tell me to shut up. Or, better yet, talk about yourself.
I'd actually like to hear of your own stupidest experiences.

one of my stupidest experiences was installing linux.

[Josh Singh]

Post by matija

Post by Josh Singh
BTW, folks, if it bothers you that I'm constantly talking about
myself or my life, feel free to tell me to shut up. Or, better yet,
talk about yourself. I'd actually like to hear of your own stupidest
experiences.

one of my stupidest experiences was installing linux.

Woah boy... whaddya recommend?

[matija]

Post by Josh Singh

Post by matija
one of my stupidest experiences was installing linux.

Woah boy... whaddya recommend?

to install linux, of course. however, DON'T mess around
with your hard drive. either try knoppix or find an old
2 GB HDD and install it there. if i were you, i'd even
go so far to create a boot floppy and not let LILO do
anything to the MBR. if you like what you see, you can
always install LILO later. if you don't, throw the floppy
in your local recycle bin, repartition/reformat that
2nd HDD and use it for whatever you like.

i'll repeat one more time: DON'T INSTALL LINUX ON YOUR
PRIMARY HARD DRIVE UNTIL YOU'RE 100% SURE YOU KNOW WHAT
YOU'RE DOING.

[The Wanderer]

Post by Josh Singh

Post by matija
one of my stupidest experiences was installing linux.

Woah boy... whaddya recommend?

to install linux, of course. however, DON'T mess around with your
hard drive. either try knoppix or find an old 2 GB HDD and install it
there. if i were you, i'd even go so far to create a boot floppy and
not let LILO do anything to the MBR. if you like what you see, you
can always install LILO later. if you don't, throw the floppy in your
local recycle bin, repartition/reformat that 2nd HDD and use it for
whatever you like.
i'll repeat one more time: DON'T INSTALL LINUX ON YOUR PRIMARY HARD
DRIVE UNTIL YOU'RE 100% SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Or, at least, until you're sure you don't want to go back.

I waited to move to Linux till I had a brand-spanking-new hard drive to
stick it on; this is probably a good thing, as even with that precaution
I've never been able to get a dual-boot setup working. If Windows was
not the last OS installed on my machine, it doesn't like the MBR and
won't boot; if it *was* the last OS installed, then I don't get to grub
and can't boot into Linux. This isn't really a problem for me, as I
wouldn't use Windows except for games anyway (and I mostly don't *have*
the games), but others should unquestionably beware.

[matija]

Post by The Wanderer
I've never been able to get a dual-boot setup working. If Windows was
not the last OS installed on my machine, it doesn't like the MBR and
won't boot; if it *was* the last OS installed, then I don't get to grub
and can't boot into Linux.

i'm in posession of five standalone boot managers, even though
i have only one OS installed ;)

you could try XOSL, it's a neat thing. acronis' OS selector is
great from what i've heard, but it's not free :/

[The Wanderer]

Post by The Wanderer
I've never been able to get a dual-boot setup working. If Windows
was not the last OS installed on my machine, it doesn't like the
MBR and won't boot; if it *was* the last OS installed, then I don't
get to grub and can't boot into Linux.

i'm in posession of five standalone boot managers, even though i have
only one OS installed ;)

<grin> I know the instinct that leads in that direction...

you could try XOSL, it's a neat thing. acronis' OS selector is great
from what i've heard, but it's not free :/

I'll take those under advisement; thank you for the recommendations.

[Janek Kozicki]

The Wanderer said: (by the date of Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:29:25 -0500)

<bootloaders>

Post by The Wanderer

you could try XOSL, it's a neat thing. acronis' OS selector is great
from what i've heard, but it's not free :/

I'll take those under advisement; thank you for the recommendations.

I use lilo for sooo long (six years?) and it never failed me. even when
I wanted to boot linux,linux-other,win98,winNT4,OS/2

[Malte Helmert]

Post by Janek Kozicki
The Wanderer said: (by the date of Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:29:25 -0500)
<bootloaders>

Post by The Wanderer

you could try XOSL, it's a neat thing. acronis' OS selector is great
from what i've heard, but it's not free :/

I'll take those under advisement; thank you for the recommendations.

I use lilo for sooo long (six years?) and it never failed me. even when
I wanted to boot linux,linux-other,win98,winNT4,OS/2

I've been using Lilo for seven years at least, on four different
computers (two of them notebooks), with four different versions of
Windows and five different versions of Linux. No problem so far. I've
always installed Windows first and then let the Linux installer do the
partitioning -- maybe that helps. In any case, backup if you are not
100% sure what you're doing.

Malte

[The Wanderer]

Post by Malte Helmert

Post by Janek Kozicki
The Wanderer said: (by the date of Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:29:25 -0500)
<bootloaders>

Post by The Wanderer

Post by matija
you could try XOSL, it's a neat thing. acronis' OS selector is
great from what i've heard, but it's not free :/

I'll take those under advisement; thank you for the
recommendations.

I use lilo for sooo long (six years?) and it never failed me. even
when I wanted to boot linux,linux-other,win98,winNT4,OS/2

I've been using Lilo for seven years at least, on four different
computers (two of them notebooks), with four different versions of
Windows and five different versions of Linux. No problem so far. I've
always installed Windows first and then let the Linux installer do
the partitioning -- maybe that helps. In any case, backup if you are
not 100% sure what you're doing.

I've had recommendations against lilo, for reasons I forget.

I have, indeed, installed Windows and then let the Linux installer do
its work; however, when I've tried to boot Windows after that it has
objected to the MBR not being how it wants it and failed to come up.

At this point I don't really care much, since the only things I want are
games and the games I have I can most likely get working in Wine/WineX
if I ever get enough free disk space to install them. The comments are
appreciated, however.

[Janek Kozicki]

Post by Josh Singh
sample, basically. I was checking some distributions out at www.linux.org,

you might want to try http://www.distrowatch.com/

[Arturus Magi]

Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:26:44 -0500

Post by The Wanderer

Post by Janek Kozicki

Post by Josh Singh
(BTW, can anyone recommend a good, cheap Linux OS that runs under
XP? I've wanted to give it a try;

not sure what you mean? what is XP? (if you mean winXP, then the
answer is: cygwin)

I'm not sure what is meant by "a Linux that runs under Windows XP",
myself. Cygwin is about as close as you come, although WinLinux has its
proponents (or had; I haven't looked in awhile). If you can clarify the
question, maybe I can dig something up.

I would suggest avoiding WinLinux. It boots into X, and refuses to let even
root exit to console.

[The Wanderer]

Post by Arturus Magi
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:26:44 -0500

Post by The Wanderer

Post by Janek Kozicki

Post by Josh Singh
(BTW, can anyone recommend a good, cheap Linux OS that runs
under XP? I've wanted to give it a try;

not sure what you mean? what is XP? (if you mean winXP, then the
answer is: cygwin)

I'm not sure what is meant by "a Linux that runs under Windows XP",
myself. Cygwin is about as close as you come, although WinLinux
has its proponents (or had; I haven't looked in awhile). If you can
clarify the question, maybe I can dig something up.

I would suggest avoiding WinLinux. It boots into X, and refuses to
let even root exit to console.

Ew. Suggestion withdrawn, then. Console isn't *necessary* for much, but
it's the only way I can reliably get accurate colors in ADoM, and it's
useful for a few other low-level things as well.

[Josh Singh]

Post by Janek Kozicki
Josh Singh said: (by the date of 8 Nov 2003 20:38:22 GMT)

Post by Josh Singh
I really wanna just give Windows the finger and kick it out the door, but

I did that 3 years ago ;)

Solid. ;)

Post by Janek Kozicki

Post by Josh Singh
then I'm not compatible with anything anymore.

yes, you are => OpenOffice - it reads all msOffice formats, and it
does it good.

Wha... well, that's just nutty.

Post by Janek Kozicki

Post by Josh Singh
(BTW, can anyone recommend a
good, cheap Linux OS that runs under XP? I've wanted to give it a try;

not sure what you mean? what is XP? (if you mean winXP, then the
answer is: cygwin)

I'll check it out.

Post by Janek Kozicki
generally if you are not using windows for Computer Aided Design then
everything you need is under linux (all office applications
(OpenOffice,Koffice,Gnome-suite), graphic processing (gimp), film
processing (mencoder,imagemagick,filmgimp), math processing
(gnumeric,gnuplot,...), net apps (galeon,mozilla,sylpheed,ximian) and
so on)

Hell, I don't even need all that.

Post by Janek Kozicki
lack of good CAD application is major PITA for people who want to
switch to linux. So if don't need CAD then you can switch to linux
NOW! ;-)

CAD, good gravy. I don't need CAD. I just need ADOM, classic rock, and a big
book to teach me how to program in a better OO language than Java (though,
for now, I'll need to hang onto Java for my classes).

You know, the whole OOP thing was really screwing me up (being the beast of
procedural programming that I am), but now that I know what the hell
inheritance, polymorphism, *and objects* are, it's starting to click. (80%
on my midterm, woo!)
My prof seems to despise Java, and its "primitive data types" and
loosey-goosey encapsulation rules. It always seems like he's on the verge of
going down to Palo Alto, California, and bombing Sun Microsystems. ("Replace
HashTable, will you? We'll see about that! Iterate *this*, bitch!" <... if
(isMad) { prof.bombSun(); isMad = false; }else { isMad = true; }...>)

Post by Janek Kozicki
And you will not need wine (unless you are going to run fallout, which
runs pretty good ;)

I'd only be playing NHL 2004. And, now that I'm actually in Ottawa, my
favourite NHL team is right in my lap, so maybe I won't even play that; I'll
just use my loan money to go see a few Senator games. (The fact that I'd be
in the same city as my beloved Senators was actually a big reason I chose
Carleton University. That, and the University of Toronto rejected me ;).)

Post by Janek Kozicki
If you are stuck between all those distros then try knoppix, or if you
are a _little_ more advanced then take a dive into debian. I have also
heard some *very* good opinions about libranet - that this distro is
just debian with the only difference - very easy installer (although I
never tried it)

I'll leave tha advanced stuff behind until I *am* advanced :P.

Well, Janek, thank you very much. Once again, you're the straw that stirs
the drink.

[Janek Kozicki]

Josh Singh said: (by the date of 8 Nov 2003 21:41:48 GMT)

Post by Josh Singh
Well, Janek, thank you very much. Once again, you're the straw that stirs
the drink.

heheh ;)

then download http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html and
burn it. Then start a computer from CD, if computer asks anything then
just press enter.

You are completely safe about you hard-drive - knoppix runs only from CD
and doesn't touch HDD at all - unless you order it to install on HDD.

trying knoppix is painless. and allows you to quickly check out linux.


<java>

well.. I prefer C++ , one of my good friends was a fervent follower of
java, for four years (or more). Then he learned python, and changed his
mind. I don't know neither of them, but maybe there is something in
python?

[Malte Helmert]

Post by Josh Singh
You know, the whole OOP thing was really screwing me up (being the beast of
procedural programming that I am), but now that I know what the hell
inheritance, polymorphism, *and objects* are, it's starting to click. (80%
on my midterm, woo!)
My prof seems to despise Java, and its "primitive data types" and
loosey-goosey encapsulation rules. It always seems like he's on the verge of
going down to Palo Alto, California, and bombing Sun Microsystems. ("Replace
HashTable, will you? We'll see about that! Iterate *this*, bitch!" <... if
(isMad) { prof.bombSun(); isMad = false; }else { isMad = true; }...>)

If you're looking for an OOP language which is more high-level and has a
cleaner syntax, try Python (www.python.org). The missing block
delimiters and dynamic typing are not to everybody's liking, but many
people love it. I think it's safe to say that of all reasonably
widespread imperative language, it's the most modern.

Malte

[Josh Singh]

Post by Malte Helmert

Post by Josh Singh
You know, the whole OOP thing was really screwing me up (being the
beast of procedural programming that I am), but now that I know what
the hell inheritance, polymorphism, *and objects* are, it's starting
to click. (80% on my midterm, woo!)
My prof seems to despise Java, and its "primitive data types" and
loosey-goosey encapsulation rules. It always seems like he's on the
verge of going down to Palo Alto, California, and bombing Sun
Microsystems. ("Replace HashTable, will you? We'll see about that!
Iterate *this*, bitch!" <... if (isMad) { prof.bombSun(); isMad =
false; }else { isMad = true; }...>)

If you're looking for an OOP language which is more high-level and
has a cleaner syntax, try Python (www.python.org). The missing block
delimiters and dynamic typing are not to everybody's liking, but many
people love it. I think it's safe to say that of all reasonably
widespread imperative language, it's the most modern.

That makes two endorsements for Python. I'll look into it. Thank you Malte +
Janek. You guys are the class (the class!).
Better get to work on my roguelike (:S). After all, I don't think my work on
DeadHeads' Delight can go on; switching back and forth between top-down
procedural and OO is probably a stupid idea. Oh what the hell, I'll finish
it up (though I haven't worked on it in months... stupid adult
responsibilities).

[Arturus Magi]

From: Janek Kozicki ***@existant.org
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:06:53 +0100

Post by Janek Kozicki

Post by Josh Singh
then I'm not compatible with anything anymore.

yes, you are => OpenOffice - it reads all msOffice formats, and it does
it good.

It's really not particularly good at it. Embeded images almost always mess up
the formatting, for one, and it doesn't much like embeded Excel tables either.
It also occasionally gets confused with multi-column pages and column breaks.
(Don't bother even trying to read the .doc formated version of the manual for
the D2X mod Zy-El. You'll end up with a 52 page document with text only on the
first 24 pages. The rest are blank with the occasional image that's 16+ pages
below where it should be.)

[The Beerslayer]

Post by The Beerslayer
The Windows version 1.1.1 doesn't appear to support the -S
command line option to generate a hiscore.doc file.

I guess you're on 2000 or ME.

2000, actually. I have to confess that it's far more stable than
any other Windows version I've ever used, which is why I stick with
it. But even that stability is relative, of course... I have
problems with DOS apps, including ADOM DOS - they sometimes lock up
my entire system so completely it can't even put up a BSoD. When
that happens, all I can do is power off. I have never had this
problem with the Winbeta version of ADOM, so I keep using it
despite its other quirks.

I really wanna just give Windows the finger and kick it out the
door, but then I'm not compatible with anything anymore. (BTW,
can anyone recommend a good, cheap Linux OS that runs under XP?
I've wanted to give it a try; I could do without all these extra
security measures I've had to install and run non-stop because
our ResNet is under constant attack. If I figure Linux out, I'll
get Wine and burn my Windows CD in the Quad while hundreds of
students watch and laugh and, possibly, bunn.)

As a Windows power user and Linux wannabe who has tried most of
these, perhaps I can offer you a few suggestions:

1) As I understand it, Cygwin isn't really a true *nix system, but
rather a *nix-lookalike shell for Windows (running UNDER Windows)
that offers SOME limited *nix functionality to SOME apps via the
infamous cygwin.dll. You can still launch your DOS apps (including
ADOM) from a Cygwin prompt, but the underlying OS is still DOS. If
you just want to learn some *nix commands, it's worth a try, but it
doesn't take the place of a full-blown Linux system.

2) On one machine, I have set up a tri-boot system (Win 98, Win
2000, RedHat Linux 7.3). It really isn't that difficult to do if
you have enough disk space... and there are HowTO files out there
for every aspect of the job from repartitioning your HD without
losing the data (hopefully) to setting up Windows 2000's bootloader
to recognize the Linux partition.

3) If you're not quite ready to go that route, and Cygwin isn't
what you're looking for, and your machine has enough
horsepower to consider it, you might want to try playing around
with an emulator like Bochs (http://bochs.sourceforge.net/). I
have had Linux successfully running inside Bochs, but it does run
very slowly and I haven't even tried to bring up Xwindows yet.

3) Don't rely on Wine to give you much in the way of compatibility.
It does work occasionally but I've had many, many problems getting
Wine to run most of my apps successfully. Maybe in three or four
years when they've ironed out most of the problems, but by then of
course Microsoft will have been hard at work for three or four
years creating new ones, so... IMHO, Wine isn't the answer (in vino
non veritas? :)

4) As much as I like the concept of Linux and open-source software,
the reality is that the vast majority of software out there is
still being written for Windows and not being ported to Linux.
Unless you are setting up a server with a few limited functions, or
you can survive on a few applications and don't care about the
rest, I can't recommend switching entirely over to Linux and
firebombing your Windows CD. I do hope this changes, and I see
signs that it might be changing, but until Linux becomes as or more
prevalent than Windows, I'm afraid I'll be sticking to my tri-boot
system.

Post by The Beerslayer
Besides, you really don't want to know if I've been
savescumming or not, do you? :)

Well, if you're a savescummer and you still haven't made
substantial progress, then that just makes me look better.

Didn't say I was, didn't say I wasn't.

But I did say I suck at this game... :)

-- Jeff
-- aka The Beerslayer

---------------------------------------------------------------
Use what talent you possess; the woods would be very silent
if no birds sang except those who sang best. - Unknown
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Janek Kozicki]

The Beerslayer said: (by the date of Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:06:27 GMT)

Post by The Beerslayer
1) As I understand it, Cygwin isn't really a true *nix system, but
rather a *nix-lookalike shell for Windows (running UNDER Windows)
that offers SOME limited *nix functionality to SOME apps via the
infamous cygwin.dll. You can still launch your DOS apps (including
ADOM) from a Cygwin prompt, but the underlying OS is still DOS. If
you just want to learn some *nix commands, it's worth a try, but it
doesn't take the place of a full-blown Linux system.

not exactly. cygwin is also Xserver that runs under windows.

Post by The Beerslayer
3) If you're not quite ready to go that route, and Cygwin isn't
what you're looking for, and your machine has enough
horsepower to consider it, you might want to try playing around
with an emulator like Bochs (http://bochs.sourceforge.net/). I
have had Linux successfully running inside Bochs, but it does run
very slowly and I haven't even tried to bring up Xwindows yet.

I'm running vmware emulaor and windows in it (runs fine - I have
600 MHz, 512 ram), in case I need windows for something (happens
very rarely).

Post by The Beerslayer
3) Don't rely on Wine to give you much in the way of compatibility.
It does work occasionally but I've had many, many problems getting
Wine to run most of my apps successfully. Maybe in three or four
years when they've ironed out most of the problems, but by then of
course Microsoft will have been hard at work for three or four
years creating new ones, so... IMHO, Wine isn't the answer (in vino
non veritas? :)

you have also: winex, dosbox (both good for games), and dosemu. not
mentioning spectrum, amiga, etc.. emulators :)

Post by The Beerslayer
4) As much as I like the concept of Linux and open-source software,
the reality is that the vast majority of software out there is
still being written for Windows and not being ported to Linux.
Unless you are setting up a server with a few limited functions, or
you can survive on a few applications and don't care about the
rest, I can't recommend switching entirely over to Linux and
firebombing your Windows CD. I do hope this changes, and I see
signs that it might be changing, but until Linux becomes as or more
prevalent than Windows, I'm afraid I'll be sticking to my tri-boot
system.

objection. what is "vast mojority" ?

Give examples, and I'll point you at least twice the number of programs
that run under linux, and do the same (exept for AutoCAD - there are at
least four CAD programs but they are poor)

disclaimer: obviously I'm a linux zealot >:-)

PS: virtual-dub (film processing) - I succesfully manage to live without
it - I use gimp, mencoder, imagemagick, bash . And this combo works good
for me.

[matija]

Janek Kozicki, completely geschtonkenflapped, wrote:

[about software for windows being in the majority]

Post by Janek Kozicki
Give examples, and I'll point you at least twice the number of programs
that run under linux, and do the same (exept for AutoCAD - there are at
least four CAD programs but they are poor)

anything that has to do with music or audio in general.
linux severely lacks in this area, and, like it or not,
today windows is the standard for sound manipulation and
music composing.

[Arturus Magi]

From: Janek Kozicki ***@existant.org
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:58:09 +0100

Post by Janek Kozicki
Give examples, and I'll point you at least twice the number of programs
that run under linux

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. (Freeciv is the closest you can get. AFAIK, SMAC
doesn't run under WineX yet.)

Take note that he said programs, in general, and the majority part of programs
for a PC are games now. Even with WineX, games still aren't well supported on
POSIX systems.

[Janek Kozicki]

Arturus Magi said: (by the date of 09 Nov 2003 01:02:03 GMT)

Post by Arturus Magi

Post by Janek Kozicki
Give examples, and I'll point you at least twice the number of programs
that run under linux

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. (Freeciv is the closest you can get. AFAIK, SMAC
doesn't run under WineX yet.)
Take note that he said programs, in general, and the majority part of programs
for a PC are games now. Even with WineX, games still aren't well supported on
POSIX systems.

okay, okay ;))

[Malte Helmert]

Post by The Beerslayer
Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..

[in the VDDL]

Post by The Beerslayer
At this point, she has wasted all but one charge in both Wands of
Item Detection[3] she possesses trying in vain to find the item on
top of the stairway, as discussed in the GB, but it has never been
revealed, not even once. All other items on the level have been
cleaned out so further wand use only "reveals the absence of
items".
Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for her?

A monster must have picked up the item. This also means that it's even
harder to teleport into the empty space -- for random teleports, the
chance will be about 1 in 1000, assuming that there are about 1000
non-wall squares on the level.

Either use some means of monster detection, preferably after clearing
the level of monsters as thorougly as possible, or go digging
systematically. Good luck!

Malte

[The Beerslayer]

Post by Malte Helmert

Post by The Beerslayer
Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..

[in the VDDL]

Post by The Beerslayer
Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for
her?

Either use some means of monster detection, preferably after
clearing the level of monsters as thorougly as possible, or go
digging systematically. Good luck!

Thanks!

She's already cleaned out the level as much as possible... there
are still new monsters being generated (nasty: a werewolf lord
summoning werewolves, which in turn summon wolves and dire wolves),
but nothing that was there originally.

I don't know why it never occurred to me to try a wand of monster
detection, as she has three of them. Will try that and see what
happens.

-- Jeff
-- aka The Beerslayer

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing so dangerous as an idea when it
is the only one you have. -- Unknown
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Frances Kathleen Moffatt]

Post by The Beerslayer
Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..
OK, I admit it... I'm stuck.
My latest PC, a neutral level 18 human wizard, has made it farther
than any wizard [1] I've ever had [2]. At this point, she's on
level 2 of the Assassin's Guild (VDDL) and wanting to get to level
3. She has both teleportitis and teleport control, so maneuvering
around all the teleport traps is not a problem. She has mapped out
the entire visible portion of the level. She has already received
the "You suddenly feel attuned to this area" message mentioned in
the GB, so unless I'm missing something, she should be able to find
and use the stairway/teleporter to level 3.

Makes sense, and is correct so far as I know. Congrats on getting this
far.

Post by The Beerslayer
At this point, she has wasted all but one charge in both Wands of
Item Detection[3] she possesses trying in vain to find the item on
top of the stairway, as discussed in the GB, but it has never been
revealed, not even once. All other items on the level have been
cleaned out so further wand use only "reveals the absence of
items".
Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for her?

I don't know. Possibly some other monster picked it up.

Post by The Beerslayer
She doesn't have any Scrolls of Magic Mapping nor any Crystals of
Knowledge. Is there any other way to locate the stairway? I'd
hate to have to try teleporting her to every possible square
outside the mapped region just to find it.

Assuming you don't have an spellbooks of magic mapping or the like, there
are four options I can think of, none of which are necessarily
particularly fun.

* Teleport randomly around the level.
* Teleport deliberately around the level. Start by trying to teleport to
the upper left-hand corner of the screen. Then try teleporting to the
space one square over. Repeat. A lot.
* Use the wand of digging/Mystic Shovel spell/pickaxe to dig a whole bunch
of vertical tunnels. Since the room you are looking for is two squares
wide, they can be two squares apart.
* You're level 18; unless you're equipped with some serious poison
resistance and a ball spell (both of which are quite possible at this
level), deal with smaller stuff for a bit. The assassins are brutal.

Love and coffee,
Frances

[The Beerslayer]

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt

Post by The Beerslayer
Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..
OK, I admit it... I'm stuck.
My latest PC, a neutral level 18 human wizard, has made it
farther than any wizard [1] I've ever had [2].

Makes sense, and is correct so far as I know. Congrats on
getting this far.

Thanks! I have no idea how much farther she'll survive, but it's
been interesting so far... :)

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt

Post by The Beerslayer
Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for her?

I don't know. Possibly some other monster picked it up.

Several people have suggested this. In retrospect, it seems
obvious... too bad my PC can't live in retrospect... :)

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt
there are four options I can think of, none of which are
necessarily particularly fun.
* Teleport randomly around the level.
* Teleport deliberately around the level. Start by trying to
teleport to the upper left-hand corner of the screen. Then
try teleporting to the space one square over. Repeat. A lot.

Tried both of these. No result so far, and was hoping to avoid
more of the same, lest this room turn out to be almost as much fun
as the Animated Forest.

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt
* Use the wand of digging/Mystic Shovel spell/pickaxe to dig a

whole bunch

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt
of vertical tunnels. Since the room you are looking for is two squares
wide, they can be two squares apart.

Only one charge on her only Wand of Digging, and no booze nor
Scrolls of Charging... :(

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt
* You're level 18; unless you're equipped with some serious
poison resistance

Check. She's eaten every cave fisher and giant spider corpse she's
ever found (and there have been many).

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt
and a ball spell (both of which are quite possible at this
level)

She has plenty of ball spells... Acid Ball, Fireball, Ice Ball,
Lightning Ball. What I wish she had more of are ranged spells...
all she has are Magic Missile, Frost Bolt, Lightning Bolt, and Stun
Ray, none of which are particularly devastating.

Sigh. Is it just my imagination, or is there relatively little for
a level 18-25 PC to do in this game? Once you've completed all the
Terinyo quests and all of Thrundarr's quests, and you haven't yet
found an AoLS (and so you don't want to talk to Khelly yet), it
seems that there isn't a whole lot else. PCs at this level
probably aren't quite ready for the ToEF and the ID gets boring
after a while. I assume it picks up again after about lvl 25 or
so...

-- Jeff
-- aka The Beerslayer

---------------------------------------------------------------
There are 10 kinds of people; those who understand binary,
and those who don't. - Unknown
---------------------------------------------------------------

[Stefan Kalgraf]

Post by The Beerslayer
Sigh. Is it just my imagination, or is there relatively little for
a level 18-25 PC to do in this game? Once you've completed all the
Terinyo quests and all of Thrundarr's quests, and you haven't yet
found an AoLS (and so you don't want to talk to Khelly yet), it
seems that there isn't a whole lot else. PCs at this level
probably aren't quite ready for the ToEF and the ID gets boring
after a while. I assume it picks up again after about lvl 25 or
so...

Well, if you stop worrying about an ultimate ending you can at least go down
to the water temple and get the orb. Also, there's the Ring of the High
Kings to find! Darkforge if you have a character that can handle
it(spellcaster with lightning, fighter with a weapon that can handle the
golems, fighter with teleport to get a weapon that can handle the golems...)

Personally I never bother with the assassins guild at all, so there can't be
that little to do! :)

[Frances Kathleen Moffatt]

Post by The Beerslayer

Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..

Sigh. Is it just my imagination, or is there relatively little for
a level 18-25 PC to do in this game? Once you've completed all the
Terinyo quests and all of Thrundarr's quests, and you haven't yet
found an AoLS (and so you don't want to talk to Khelly yet), it
seems that there isn't a whole lot else. PCs at this level
probably aren't quite ready for the ToEF and the ID gets boring
after a while. I assume it picks up again after about lvl 25 or
so...

I've never found it boring, but I tend to occasionally skip Khelly. If
you have some form of invisibility (a decent substitute for magic mapping
in terms of not getting killed while wandering around looking for stairs)
you might want to try the TotHK.

Love and coffee,
Frances

[Josh Singh]

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt

Post by The Beerslayer

Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..

Sigh. Is it just my imagination, or is there relatively little for
a level 18-25 PC to do in this game? Once you've completed all the
Terinyo quests and all of Thrundarr's quests, and you haven't yet
found an AoLS (and so you don't want to talk to Khelly yet), it
seems that there isn't a whole lot else. PCs at this level
probably aren't quite ready for the ToEF and the ID gets boring
after a while. I assume it picks up again after about lvl 25 or
so...

I've never found it boring, but I tend to occasionally skip Khelly.
If you have some form of invisibility (a decent substitute for magic
mapping in terms of not getting killed while wandering around looking
for stairs) you might want to try the TotHK.

If the Beerslayer has intrinsic invisibility in some way, or the spell, then
sure. Otherwise, I'd say he could rely on his ball spells in the cavernous
levels and save his invisibility for facing the skeletal king. I've tried it
a couple times and it's worked delightfully. After you construct your bridge
(if you're using ice, make *absolutely* sure that you are carrying *no more*
than 1998 stones (since the ring itself is 2 stones)) and before you open
the door, drink your PoI. Lead the bastard into the long corridor (make sure
your invisibility doesn't wear off before you get there), and don't engage
him, otherwise he'll know where you are despite your invisibility. Then
pound the life (or death?) out of him (and be careful with bouncing bolt
spells, obviously). If he panics, let him go; just retrieve the ring and
leave, but don't follow too closely behind him. Confusion and pirhanas don't
mix. Give him some time to get into the far corner of the cavern, then go
get the ring.

If you have some rock-solid confusion resistance, ignore everything I just
wrote.

On the mid-level boredom factor: if you're not going for a special ending,
then you don't need to wait around to save Khelly. It's nice to have those
SoCRs, but think about it like this: if all your searching for an AoLS means
that the 90-day mark closes in, then yes, you'll need the corruption
removal. OTOH, if you keep moving, you might not get as corrupted. And an
AoLS is very difficult to obtain. You want as little game time as possible
to have elapsed when you hit the depths of the CoC. (I found this out the
hard way!)

[Przemyslaw Brojewski]

The Beerslayer <***@no.yahoo.spam.com> wrote:
: Frances Kathleen Moffatt wrote:

:> "The Beerslayer" (***@NO.yahoo.SPAM.com) writes:
:> > Is
:> >
:> > th
:> > is
:> >
:> > sp
:> > oi
:> > ly
:> > ??
:> >
:> > I'
:> > m
:> >
:> > no
:> > t
:> >
:> > su
:> > re
:> >
:> > so
:> >
:> > I'
:> > ll
:> >
:> > pu
:> > t
:> >
:> > th
:> > is
:> >
:> > he
:> > re
:> >
:> > to
:> >
:> > be
:> >
:> > sa
:> > fe
:> > ..
:> > ..
:> >
:> > OK, I admit it... I'm stuck.
:> > My latest PC, a neutral level 18 human wizard, has made it
:> > farther than any wizard [1] I've ever had [2].
:>
:> Makes sense, and is correct so far as I know. Congrats on
:> getting this far.

: Thanks! I have no idea how much farther she'll survive, but it's
: been interesting so far... :)


:> > Why doesn't the Wand of Item Detection detect anything for her?
:>
:> I don't know. Possibly some other monster picked it up.

: Several people have suggested this. In retrospect, it seems
: obvious... too bad my PC can't live in retrospect... :)


:> there are four options I can think of, none of which are
:> necessarily particularly fun.
:>
:> * Teleport randomly around the level.
:> * Teleport deliberately around the level. Start by trying to
:> teleport to the upper left-hand corner of the screen. Then
:> try teleporting to the space one square over. Repeat. A lot.

: Tried both of these. No result so far, and was hoping to avoid
: more of the same, lest this room turn out to be almost as much fun
: as the Animated Forest.


:> * Use the wand of digging/Mystic Shovel spell/pickaxe to dig a
: whole bunch
:> of vertical tunnels. Since the room you are looking for is two
: squares
:> wide, they can be two squares apart.

: Only one charge on her only Wand of Digging, and no booze nor
: Scrolls of Charging... :(


:> * You're level 18; unless you're equipped with some serious
:> poison resistance

: Check. She's eaten every cave fisher and giant spider corpse she's
: ever found (and there have been many).


:> and a ball spell (both of which are quite possible at this
:> level)

: She has plenty of ball spells... Acid Ball, Fireball, Ice Ball,
: Lightning Ball. What I wish she had more of are ranged spells...
: all she has are Magic Missile, Frost Bolt, Lightning Bolt, and Stun
: Ray, none of which are particularly devastating.

: Sigh. Is it just my imagination, or is there relatively little for
: a level 18-25 PC to do in this game? Once you've completed all the
: Terinyo quests and all of Thrundarr's quests, and you haven't yet
: found an AoLS (and so you don't want to talk to Khelly yet), it
: seems that there isn't a whole lot else. PCs at this level
: probably aren't quite ready for the ToEF
You are a wizard. You have plenty of Ice Ball. You have some of Frost Bolt.
You've got fireproof blanket from Thrundrar. You've got elemental
gauntlets. Go for ring of the High Kings, then clear the ToEF.
You are quite ready for it. (You may substitute ring of fire resistance
for RotHK for the purpose of ToEF clearing)


brojek.

[Malte Helmert]

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt

Is
th
is
sp
oi
ly
??
I'
m
no
t
su
re
so
I'
ll
pu
t
th
is
he
re
to
be
sa
fe
..
..

[finding the stairs on VDDL]

Post by Frances Kathleen Moffatt
* Use the wand of digging/Mystic Shovel spell/pickaxe to dig a whole bunch
of vertical tunnels. Since the room you are looking for is two squares
wide, they can be two squares apart.

They can be four [1] squares apart (view with a fixed with font):

###############
# ### ### ### #
# AA# ### ### #
# ### ### ### #
# ### ### ### #
# ### ### ### #
# ### ### #BB #
# ### ### ### #
# ### ### ### #
# #
###############

If you leave rows of walls of width three like this all over the level,
then either you hit straight into the room with the stairs to the
Assassin's Dungeon (i.e. one of your tunnels either passes through the
square with the stairs or the square where the wand is generated), or
the room will be completely within one row of walls.

In the latter case, you will either dig away the left wall delimiting
the room (if the room is located like AA above) or the right wall
delimiting the room (if the room is located like BB above). In either
case you're fine.

You can minimize the amount of digging required further by making use of
diagonals. I'd prefer that if you need to make use of a pickaxe; it is
more cumbersome with wand or spell. For example, you can try a pattern
like this (fixed width font again; I am assuming that the walls at the
left and right are the delimiting walls of the dungeon):

#######################
#### #### #### #### ###
### #### #### #### ####
#### #### #### #### ###
### #### #### #### ####
#### #### #### #### ###
### #### #### #### ####
#### #### #### #### ###
### #### #### #### ####
#### # # ###
#######################

Malte

[1] Three squares if you count the number of walls in between the
tunnels, not the number of tiles you have to cross from one tunnel to
the other.

[Frances Kathleen Moffatt]

[snipped explanation of tactical digging in spoily location]

Good point on the spacing, and thank you for pointing out the pickaxe
option.

Love and coffee,
Frances (as Hammerhead just became much more interesting...)